A Final Statement from Black Raven Coven?

So it has been brought to Chops attention that "Lady Isadora Raven Avalon" has at least replied to charges of plagiarism, but no other questions that Chops and other pagans at large have asked. Here is, in part, said "Final Statement".

Posted in BLACK RAVEN COVEN - WITCHES & WICCANS OF FACEBOOK by Isadora Raven Avalon on 9/1/2011

Black Raven Coven Final Statement: (warning: this is not a nice read so if you are not aware of this situation pass it by and if you are, then please read.

Black Raven Coven

It is a terrible situation that a few people have tried to undermine our coven, one in particular, who has harassed members and admins. BRC will not rise to the bait from now on and the fluffy bunnies and bustin chops can do what they like with this information.

BRC answers to the following questions raised by chops who should at this stage come out in public and stop hiding.

“Chops stands by it's original assertion that Black Raven Coven is Rochelle Moore, back under a new persona (Raven, and many phoney admin alts), recycling her older Moore works under a different name and premise this year after the plagiarism bust of last year - to continue to make money off the pagan community.”

ANSWER: A photograph was provided showing Isadora and no more will be issued. Your turn to show who you really are we have complied completely and are still at the end of these accusations by a fictitional character.

A picture from a newspaper's website labeled "reveler", rebranded. Not much in the way of "proof", especially after attempting to pass off three previous stolen pics as you, including one of actress Olivia Wilde! Chops remains unimpressed. :(

And The Black Raven Coven claims not to even know Rochelle Moore, even though the New BRC group has the same URL as the old group.  See for yourself how it shows on profile engine.com

Chops: "The Right to Verify Credentials: Seekers shall not be obstructed from contacting persons who can substantiate or disavow the claims made by a group or teacher. In the case of elders who were inspired to create a new tradition, the seeker has a right to know the circumstances surrounding the inception of that tradition.”

ANSWER: Black Raven Coven have never hid their lineage if you read our book it is shown clearly. We also have posted in all of our groups the Seekers Bill of Rights to enable our members to ask any questions they wish and do not hide from anyone. In relation to the question about Raven's lineage and degree: Isadora studied her 3 degrees in gardnarian wicca in the early 1980's with the Coven Ouroboros et Ova in Los Angeles the coven was active in the late 1980s teaching within a very structured degree-based program and Isadora was known as Donna. Raven returned to the UK in 1985 and took over BRC in 1987 as High Priestess along with High Priest Eros Wicca (chris agnew). Credentials verified.

It seems that you are writing from beyond the grave, then. Quite A feat, Chops must admit!

You see, unfortunately, the Donna you speak of, Donna Cole Schultz, mentor of many American witches, and founder of the Temple of the Pagan Way,passed around many years ago. As usual, you forget that many pagans actually know each other.

EDIT Update: Chops feels these actions more or less speak for themselves. It becomes increasingly apparent that none of the people actively involved in the Siobhan/Rochelle Moore/Raven Avalon/Black Raven Coven issues can refute a single claim on this blog. They have every opportunity, and continue to hide, obfuscate, and blame the whistleblowers.

ANSWER:

Many members of Black Raven Coven including Raven along with various group members have written to bustin chops blog forwarding proof against these wild accusations. This person choose never to print any of our correspondence because it would ruin their hateful campaign and take them out of the limelight. You have also added a few more names to our HP's including jacqueline, elizabeth, lilla, catherine and this list has become so long it is borderline madness.

Chops has asked repeatedly for proof. The only thing Chops has ceased publication of are the repeated ramblings of (perhaps drug induced) psychosis.

Chops:

“Now that it has been established that Isobelle Raven Avalon and Black Raven Coven are indeed Rochelle Moore, Chops knew much of what she is attempting to sell as her own work would be plagiarized from other authors - and they would all be online. Indeed that is the case. In a brief examination of just one small part of the book 'Magic For The New Witch and Wiccan', one finds the following: (Raven/Rochelle's book quotes are in grey, the plagiarized originals are in blue. Red denotes the word or two that Rochelle added or changed). Naturally, none of the stolen works are cited or attributed.

______________________________

-from Raven Avalons (Rochelle Moore) Magic For The New Witch and Wiccan

INTRODUCTION: NEW TO THIS?

You would not be reading this were you not already a Seeker, trying to find your Way. Your search, the inner work it involves, the dedication, are what matter, not if your Path leads finally to being a Witch or Wicca. Walk in the light and you will never go astray. The journey to Magick starts with an inner voyage.

Magick will take you further, teach you how to penetrate the veils and layers of reality. Magick deals in ultimate truths. This journey, should you decide to undertake it, is a never-ending one. We all have things we can still learn about ourselves and about Magick, no matter how long we have been studying.

..............................

Where she stole the above content from:

You would not be reading this were you not already a Seeker, trying to find your Way. Your search (and the inner work it involves) are what matter, not if your Path leads finally to Wicca or somewhere else.

Walk in the light and you will never go astray. The journey to magick starts with an inner voyage, the journey to Self.

Magick will take you further, teach you how to penetrate the veils and layers of reality. Magick deals in ultimate truths. This journey, should you decide to undertake it, is a never-ending one. We all have things we can still learn about ourselves and about magick, no matter how long we have been studying.

-- from The Wicca Handbook by Eileen Holland. http://www.wattpad.com/520723-the-wicca-handbook-by-eileen-holland-introduction

ANSWER: Appendix & Resources in our book clearly states: The Wicca Handbook by Eileen Holland link: www.covenofthegoddess.com

____________________________________________________________

So, a link to a non-existent website is a citation? Maybe the world of Academia has imploded and no one informed poor Chops. :(

Also, while an "Appendix & Resources" is listed in the table of contents, none seemed to be actually included in the book. Funny, the exact same excuse and mysteriously missing appendix were present in the Rochelle Moore plagiarism case. Curiouser and curiouser.

Raven/Rochelles book:

Witches do not exactly "believe in" anything. They just know it to be there. Witches are great individualists and while all Wiccans are Pagans, not all Pagans are Witches. Witchcraft is a type of Paganism.

Pagans all believe in the same things but Witches work spells and Magick whilst Pagans who are not Witches do not. This will become more clear as we move through this book.

The terms Black or White Magick really have no meaning. Magick in itself is a neutral force. It is how you use it that determines whether it is for good or bad. However, Witches bear in mind the message given in the Wiccan Rede and the Threefold rule; "What you do will return to you threefold"; hence, it is not advisable to actually work any harmful Magick.

............................................................

Where she stole the above content from:

Witches do not exactly "believe in" anything. They just know it to be there. Witches are great individualists. While all wiccans are pagans, not all pagans are witches. Witchcraft is a type of paganism.

Pagans all believe in the same things but witches work spells and magic whilst pagans who are not witches do not.The terms Black or White magic really have no meaning. Magic is a neutral force. It is how you use it which determines wether it is for good or bad. However, witches bear in mind the message given in the wiccan rede and the Threefold rule. ((What you do will return to you threefold)). It is very unadvisable to actually work any harmful magic.

Source: written by: Bekka http://members.tripod.com/~Kith_Kinesthae/calling/intro.html

ANSWER: In our Appendix & Resources - www.witchvox.com/kith

Oh, look! Another non-existent link to a website, from a non-existent Appendix. Even if it all existed, that's still not a citation and still plagiarism. :(

CHOPS

rAven/Rochelles book:

The term Pagan is from the Latin "Paganus", an adjective originally meaning "rural", "rustic" or "of the country." As a noun, “Paganus” was used to mean "country dweller, villager”. The semantic development of post-classical Latin Paganus in the sense "non-Christian, heathen" is unclear. The dating of this is controversial, but the 4th century seems most plausible. An earlier example has been suggested in Tertullian De Corona Militis xi, "Apud hunc [sc. Christum] tam miles est paganus fidelis quam paganus est miles infidelis," but here the word Paganus may be interpreted in the sense "civilian" rather than "heathen".

From its earliest beginnings, Christianity spread much more rapidly in major urban areas (like Antioch, Alexandria, Corinth, Rome) than in the countryside (in fact, the early church was almost entirely urban), and soon the word for "country dweller" became synonymous with someone who was "not a Christian," giving rise to the modern meaning of "Pagan."

...........................................................

Where she stole the above content from:

The term pagan is from the Latin paganus, an adjective originally meaning "rural", "rustic" or "of the country." As a noun, paganus was used to mean "country dweller, villager."[7] The semantic development of post-classical Latin paganus in the sense "non-Christian, heathen" is unclear. The dating of this sense is controversial, but the 4th century seems most plausible. An earlier example has been suggested in Tertullian De Corona Militis xi, "Apud hunc [sc. Christum] tam miles est paganus fidelis quam paganus est miles infidelis," but here the word paganus may be interpreted in the sense "civilian" rather than "heathen".

From its earliest beginnings, Christianity spread much more quickly in major urban areas (like Antioch, Alexandria, Carthage, Corinth, Rome) than in the countryside (in fact, the early church was almost entirely urban[citation needed]), and soon the word for "country dweller" became synonymous with someone who was "not a Christian," giving rise to the modern meaning of "pagan."

Source: Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paganism

ANSWER: In our Coven Book stated clearly after this paragraph: Wikipediahttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paganism

While reprintable for common use by Wikicommons, reprinting for monetary gain is right out. And there was certainly no citation in the book. No citations to be found anywhere for anything, actually. :(

Chops:

Raven/Rochelles book:

There are many branches of Paganism e.g.:

Celtic (Druid), a reconstruction of the faith practiced by the Celts before the

Christianization of areas such as Ireland, Britain and Northern Europe.

Eclectic Pagan; a term that describes people who take from many different faiths and combine them into one, Egyptian (Kemetic), is a reconstruction of the faith practiced by the ancient Egyptians and Heathenism, (Asatru), a reconstruction of the faith practiced by the Norse people before the onset of the Christianization of Scandinavia.

............................................................

Where she stole the above content from:

Celtic (Druid), a reconstruction of the faith practiced by the Celts before the Christianization of areas such as Ireland, Britain, and Gaul

Eclectic Pagan, a term that describes people who take from many different faiths and combine them into one.

Egyptian (Kemetic), a reconstruction of the faith practiced by the ancient Egyptians.

Heathenism (Asatru), a reconstruction of the faith practiced by the Norse people before the Christianization of Scandinavia.

Source: Adam Bean, Paganism & Wicca FAQ - from the Facebook group Paganism & Wicca

https://www.facebook.com/topic.php?topic=53173&post=1246143&uid=2204731498

ANSWER: From where? A Facebook group. This is common knowledge to any pagan who is practiced in the craft!

______________________________________

Yet, not so common that you had to copy and paste it, word for word and line for line, from someone else. Shameful, really.

Now, the statement continues in this same manner, seemingly endlessly, refuting plagiarism to fake links from a non-existent Appendix, the same as Rochelle Moore did. If and when a link does work, it simply references another writer plagiarizing the original source, as if that makes everything ok. Then, she goes on to accuse others of plagiarism;

So now lets look at the facts shall we:

I am not going to go down to your level however les jackson started all of this against rochelle and she has been behind all of these groups in some form or another so let us just take her as an example as we dont have the time to waste on this anymore.

Les or leslie jackson aka cmyraes or cmyraes gwylt

link: http://cymraes.wordpress.com/2010/09/19/a-word/

her article

Cymraes' Corner

~ weird and wonderful blogging from the Welsh Marches and beyond…

For the New Seekers of the Mysteries

A word…

Posted by Cymraes' Corner ⋅ September 19, 2010 ⋅ 9 Comments

Filed Under cash, Covens, money, pagan, Religion and Spirituality, scams, Traditions, wicca, witch

In this unreality of the internet it is all to easy for the Seeker to find the wrong type (what, I hear you ask is the right type – more of that further on) of person, all to eager to take your money in exchange for Witchcraft/Wiccan degrees or such like – online.

Truth of the matter is anyone who is offering to help in the name of the Gods will do it for nothing, as it’s a calling not a money-making scam… the new Gods of the Cash Tills get worshipped far too much imho… but that’s another rant for another day…

I’d give (and have in the past) ANYONE who wants to take our money in exchange for an online degree or two a wide berth – it’s a waste of money!

You’d be better off getting yourself a good book by a well-known author and getting stuck in with that. Even better find a few good like-minded people and get stuck in with them. If you are one of the unfortunate ones who live in a remote area then do that online. Or if you are lucky enough to be in an area where they hold MBS fairs pop along – you never know who you will meet there! Moot’s are pretty wide spread in the UK now – another good place to start.

Any thing is better than parting with your hard earned money to an online scam or an online teaching coven who CHARGES money – the real McCoy do it for nowt, nothing, zilch, nadda, for free!

PLAGIARISM!!!! now go back over what you accused us of.

Where she stole the above content from:

You would not be reading this were you not already a Seeker, trying to find your Way. Your search (and the inner work it involves) are what matter, not if your Path leads finally to Wicca or somewhere else.

Walk in the light and you will never go astray. The journey to magick starts with an inner voyage, the journey to Self.

Magick will take you further, teach you how to penetrate the veils and layers of reality. Magick deals in ultimate truths. This journey, should you decide to undertake it, is a never-ending one. We all have things we can still learn about ourselves and about magick, no matter how long we have been studying.

-- from The Wicca Handbook by Eileen Holland. http://www.wattpad.com/520723-the-wicca-handbook-by-eileen-holland-introduction

As one can see, other than the commonality of the word "seeker". there is not even a hint of plagiarism. Is this sheer lunacy, or is this person so daft as to not understand the very concept of plagiarism after having the same book under three different incarnations pulled from the shelves?!

______________________________